My Top Poker Table Players are...

    Saturday, February 28, 2015, 3:21 PM [General]

    My Top Poker Table players are a group of people who to my knowledge have never played a hand of poker in their lives. You see, the thing about poker is that I can already sit down and play with any poker player in the world. Its the amazing thing about this game – all you need is the money and the chutzpah to do it. When I played in WSOP side event (small brag) I sat down to find the previous year's WSOP Player of the Year two to my left. Neither of us had struggled through numerous years of little league games, county games, Olympic type qualifiers to play. We'd just found the entry $$. And to prove how open it was he had the decency to get busted before me.

    So with the chance to play with anyone living or dead, why waste it on the people I can already play against?? Plus, surely I'm going to stand a way better chance with a bunch of noobs? No? Ok, maybe not but I'll take any edge I can.

    Seat 1. Mickey Flanagan. This comedian is the only guy that mirrors the humour and laughs I've experienced around our regular home games. And if I'm not having any of my usual cronies around I need someone to keep it funny. Outrageous and cheeky he'd be likely to 6-bet bluff just to make himself laugh.

    Seat 2. George Washington. Ok, maybe he never actually said “I can never tell a lie” but the guy is renowned for his honesty. So I can ask, “hey George, you hit that ace?” and he can't lie to me. Bluffing would be out of his game entirely.

    Seat 3. Lord Lucan. We'd invite him but he would probably disappear at the first sign of trouble and then we can blind him out. If he stays around we could easily tilt him by quizzing him about his nanny. The downside is that I bet he'd be a sneaky and deceptive player.

    Seat 4. Muhammed Ali. (Early version not today – as I'd like to meet him at his best). Like a lot of sports players I think he'd play great poker. But, more importantly, can you imagine the table talk?? I imagine he'd play poker like he boxed: he'd float like a butterfly wearing you down with lots of small pots and then sting like a bee felting you before you know what hit you.

    Seat 5. Albert Einstein. I would love to see how quickly a bona fide genius can pick up the game and begin to use strategy. Be good to see if he knows the difference between string theory and a string bet (ah, but is there a difference?). I think he would use odds, probabilities and psychology to measure his opponents, but would this be enough?

    Seat 6. Dr Evil. He would have a cunning and complex game plan to take me down but inevitably overplay his hand and good will triumph over evil. He is just too keen to explain his devious plans before the hero is really down and out. Plus we'd all know who the villain at the table is.

    Seat 7. Mother Teresa. Her vow of poverty would mean she'd have to give me back any money she wins and it would be easy to play on her heart strings. Although the fact that she has been credited with two “genuine” miracles means she might keep hitting her one-outer.

    Seat 8. Hannibal Lector. His stare down will unnerve everyone at the table and put a whole new meaning on poker jargon like having a range of hands, playing with heart and the cutoff. But he can give the player that knocks me out a lift home...

    Seat 9. Me. Yes, I'd still want to play rather than rail. But I'd like position on Hannibal most of all so that I can fold to any hand he's in. There is no way I would want to tilt him at any poker table. Or anywhere else for that matter.

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    Waiting or Hunting

    Sunday, March 23, 2014, 7:47 PM [General]

    A couple of weekends ago I went to play at the Shane Warne Poker Event having satelitted in.  I was very excited at having qualified but then realised I knew nothing about the poker event.  When I'd first looked at it I'd been attracted by the promise of a 5* venue and a $250 buyin tournament with a prize pool of about $15k.  I realised I'd assumed it would be a 2-day event with a structure you'd expect for a medium buyin - maybe 30/45 min blinds.  I realised I needed to know more about it before the event so emailed the lovely Amanda who filled me in on the details.  Thank heavens I did as the disclosed structure was pretty turbo: something I hate but would have been tilted by if I'd only found out on the night.  In fact if I'd known beforehand I may not have even tried to qualify - I should learn not to be distracted by pretty sparkly things which underneath prove to be fool's gold!

    To explain why a structure is important to me can best be explained by using Arnold Snyder's Poker Tournament Formula.  This is a calculation that enables you to assess any tournament and work out 1. What is the best strategy and 2. Whether you should even be playing it?  I am going to use a simplified version of the formula to give you a flavour of the principles involved - anyone interested in more can refer to his book of the same title.

    To begin with you need to work out the "patience factor" - in other words how patient can you be in waiting for hands before you would be blinded/ante'd out.  It will indicate what the speed of the tournament is without you having to make a best guess.  Snyder has devised a simple formula.

    We begin with the World's Most Patient Player - imagine the nittiest nit from Nitville who will fold every hand because she's had aces cracked before so she can't even rely on them and she doesn't want to see a flop even for free because she knows that it will only get her in trouble so she will even fold the Big Blind when its limped to her.  So imagine this is a live game and she will go through the blinds on a ten-handed table once every 20 mins.  We can now work out how long it will be until she has run out of chips because we can use the known structure.

    First Example:   It is your local casino game which has blind levels of 20 mins and a starting stack of 3000
    Level                            Total Spent (cumulative)           Cumulative No of Hands

     Level 1 25-50                             75(75)                                      10
     Level 2 50-100                          150 (225)                                   20
     Level 3 100-200                        300 (525)                                   30
     Level 4 200-400                        600 (1125)                                 40
     Level 5 300-600                        900 (2025)                                 50
     Level 6 500-1000                      975(3000)                                  59

    So you will see that you will have insufficient chips in your stack to fully pay the big blind on the last round.  The number of hands has been optimised for you starting on the dealer button: your blind-off time is under 2 hours (6x20 mins) and you will see 59 hands.

    Second example:  It is a side event at the WSOP where the blinds are 60 mins (3 orbits per level) and the starting stack is 1000

     Level 1 10-20                            90(90)                                       30
     Level 2 25-50                            225(315)                                   60
     Level 3 50-100                          450(765)                                   90
     Level 4 75-150                           235(1000)                                101

    Again you have insufficient funds to pay the big blind on your last hand.  In this tournament your blind off time is approx 3hrs 21mins and you will have seen 101 hands – a lot more than the tournament with a bigger starting stack!  You now have a measure for evaluating the speed of any given tournament.  

    But what does this mean for strategy? In its most basic form it helps you decide between waiting and hunting.  For example let's say that I consider a premium starting hand as AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK or AQs and these are the only hands I will play.  The odds of my getting dealt one of these starting hands are about 29 to 1 which means I will be playing only one hand out of every 30 I am dealt - 2 hands per hour!  This is unlikely to help you survive as you will rarely win enough chips to compensate for all those you have been blinding away.  How much you move away from this nitty approach will be firstly dependent on how fast the tournament is - if you are all done and dusted in 2 hrs your range is going to have to open up a lot more than if you have two days to play with.

    Snyder also proposes that in a faster structure luck will play a bigger part than skill.  I agree that if you play a lot of hands against the same opponents the outcome is likely to reflect the differing levels of ability between the players as luck is given the opportunity to level out.  For this reason Snyder proposes that you should always assess a tournament and then decide whether you should be playing it.  In essence, are you really good enough for the WSOP Main Event? The difficulty with this is that many poker players do not really know how good they are!  I know I much prefer slow tournaments but this is not because I think I'm a good player - rather I prefer the time to feel my way and try some moves without risking my tournament life too early.  And I can see that some of those players who like a gamble prefer the turbo structures – it doesn’t mean they are poor players.  But maybe a good starting point would be to look back on some recent tournaments you've played in, calculate the speed of the tournament and look at your results.  It might explain why you did better in some formats than in others.  And why I hated the structure of the Shane Warne event!

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    Quiet Times on the Poker Front

    Sunday, March 2, 2014, 11:03 PM [General]

    Recently my poker playing has taken a back seat with me vastly reducing my live play and cutting back online.  I think when you follow any sport or hobby for years there will be times when it takes a more prominent role in your life and other times when it doesn’t.  I started playing in 2005 and for the first 5 years I was obsessed with poker.  I played live 2/3 times a week and online 2/3 times.  I belonged to several poker forums, subscribed to magazines and had a large collection of poker books so if I wasn’t playing I was reading and talking about it.  I had to actually be doing something else not to play because I was never not in the mood.

    The other thing is that I think I was a lucky player.  I won a number of tournaments and had a lot of success and, let’s be honest, poker is bloody fantastic when you’re winning.  Then the inevitable happened and variance caught up with me.  And again, let’s be honest, poker is horrible when you feel that you can’t hit anything.  My bad spell lasted over six months and I felt like a real addict – I wasn’t enjoying it but I couldn’t stop playing as I continually chased the highs of my early years.   Now for the last couple of years poker has settled into a mixed bag of experiences.  I still make money but not a lot and because I find it a bit demoralising at times, I don’t play nearly as often.   I  decided that it was better to play less often and not let it get me down when I took so many beats as I was not taking them well:  I don’t want to be a moany cow or go out for the night and end up grumbling all the way home.  I now find myself spending an evening watching a film or faffing about on the internet without having a couple of tables open as well.

     The other thing I’ve realised is that I occasionally think about packing it in.  It’s odd because when I was first playing I had a couple of friends who talked about packing it in because they were in a losing spell and I’d declare that I couldn’t imagine ever feeling like that.  Maybe it happens to everyone who feels they’ve lost their game whether its golf, painting or poker.  So I’ve decided that it’s better to cut back a bit rather than get to the point where I hate it and when I’m ready I’m sure it will pick up again and seem like fun again.

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    Bullies at the table

    Wednesday, February 5, 2014, 4:44 PM [General]

    I know I've written about this before but recently I was watching an episode of The Big Game in which Tony G was relentlessly horrible to Phil Helmuth.   This went beyond banter and was just plain abusive and he never let up until Phil left the game.  At one stage he called Phil “a disgrace” and suggested he should be “ashamed” of himself.  These are very emotive words which speak to Phil as a person, not just as a poker player.   It got me to wondering why neither the Tournament Director nor the other players told him to wind his neck in.  A couple of times other players tried to deflect things by changing the subject but Tony G just ignored them and kept it up.  Nobody actually told him to pack it in.  The person I felt most sorry for was the Loose Cannon – it was very intimidating, even for a retired cop!  But Phil conducted himself very well and the nastiest thing he said was “I know that sometimes I’m a bad loser but Tony, you’re a bad winner”.  I thought this was a dignified response given that he must have been fuming inside.

    With the new approach to poker being one of aggression rather than being passive it seems that some people think it’s ok to carry this aggression over into how they deal with other people around them.   This includes dealers, waiters, other players and people on the rail.  The defence seems to be that its “gamesmanship” and that anything that gives you an edge is allowed.  But that’s a bit like a golfer coughing as his opponent is about to putt – it might be allowed but is it sporting?

    I was playing in a casino in Broadway and a local poker pro who I recognised was horrible to the dealer.  He was basically blaming her for his cards, criticising the way she handled the cards and the chips whilst continually asking for a new deck.  I was a wimp and said nothing to him but as I was in seat 10 I did mutter something supportive to her.  She said she was used to it!  What a terrible and damning statement about the behaviour of poker players.

    I think that it’s a myth perpetuated by our parents that bullies secretly respect those who stand up to them.  This has never been my experience.  In my life I’ve encountered bullies in the school yard and in the work place.  As a child I just tried to fly under the radar and hope that the bullies didn’t notice me – wimpy I know.  In work I’ve twice experienced a manager who bullied me.  Once I went to her boss who sorted it and in the other I changed jobs.  All three examples are ways of avoiding bullying rather than dealing with it head on.  It takes a lot of balls to take someone on especially in front of eight other people who may not seem to be so bothered about it.  And if you’re the one on the sidelines rather than the victim?  I think that most of us are too frightened of turning the bully’s attention to ourselves to intervene.

    When I think back over all the examples of inappropriate aggression I’ve seen at the table I think it’s embarrassing for all concerned: the bully for being an arseh*le, the victim for being humiliated and the bystanders for doing nothing.  And someone ought to tell Pokerstars that it doesn’t make good TV either.

     

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    Second Impressions

    Tuesday, January 21, 2014, 6:32 PM [General]

    In my last blog I wrote about playing against people that you are meeting for the first time but what about when you’re playing against people for the tenth time? Or the hundredth time?  I have been playing in a home game with the same group of players for the last 6 years averaging at least one game a week.  That’s about 300 games!  So you would think we all know each other really REALLY well.  But bizarrely if you were a fly on the wall you wouldn’t know it.  The table resounds with cries of “how could you call there?” and “I know you’ve got the ace” before the other player turns over a small pair just as much as it does in any other game.  In fact at the last game I had position on one of the players who moaned “I just don’t know how to play against you cos I never know what you’ve got”.

    I think that it’s for the very reason that we know each other so well that we have become diffident about learning more about the way we play against each other.  In many ways we haven’t updated our first impressions!   Given that at least 50% of us are actively working on our game, not updating our knowledge of each other is plain stupid.  In fact one of the guys who gets the most ribbing has had lessons in the last year from a professional poker coach.  If he 3bets or checkraises one of the players will inevitably say “did Dan teach you to do that?” and we are all so busy laughing that no-one pays any attention to when he did it or what he was trying to do.  When I think about it I can tell you a lot more about what cars they are buying, which film has the best car chases and how much a “hostess” costs in Thailand than I can about their poker patterns!

    I do notice that with one player it is playing massively to his advantage.  Dave (yes, him of the open heart surgery – doing fine btw) has changed his game so much in the last two years.  But hardly anyone has noticed!  He used to play any ace and would try to get to the river cheaply if he had a poor kicker.  He is now able to represent an ace any time and most opponents will believe him.  Otherwise he still has a nitty reputation despite showing cards that refute that.  I’m not sure if this is a result of laziness in bothering to remember or whether it’s arrogance in resisting changing our assessment of him no matter how much money we lose sticking to it.  If he was brave enough to 3bet more often he’d kill us.

    I am someone who does try to make notes on players when I’m in online tournaments even though I know that statistically they can only ever be tentative and so of limited use if I get lucky enough to meet them again.  And yet when I’m presented with huge amounts of information on players I meet every week I don’t even register it in my mind – let alone write it down!

    Tonight I’m off to the game where I estimate that 8/9 players I have played in excess of 100 times.  I’m going to try and be aware of how much I do know about them in anything other than the broadest ways.   Then when I get home I’m going to try to make proper notes on at least two of them.  I think the exercise of trying to remember stuff to enable me to write the notes will help me pay better attention at the game.  And I’ll have the chance to confirm my impressions at future games which is an opportunity I am rarely afforded in online games.

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    First Impressions

    Monday, January 13, 2014, 11:08 AM [General]

    As we all become increasingly mobile and travel further to play poker we are more likely to find ourselves sat at a table with not a single familiar face in sight.  The challenge is that we might still find ourselves in hands against them before we have a chance to gather any information about how they might play.

    A lot has been written over the years about what you can guess about how someone plays based on first impressions.  This begins with a certain stereotyping of players but urges caution that you should still look for things that confirm or contradict that stereotype (a luxury we may not always have).  One of the difficulties I have with this is that so many of the players I meet these days are so similar in appearance and style.  The vast majority are male, aged about 20 – 40, wearing jeans and tee-shirts and trainers.  Most play with their phones but don’t wear headphones.  They don’t riffle chips or chat a lot.  About the only thing I can pick up in the early stages is whether they are regulars in the casino based on whether they know other players.  Maybe it’s because Caro and Helmuth wrote about categorizing players based on such superficial stuff like age and whether they wear a baseball cap that players have adopted a sort of anonymous appearance.   Rarely do you see a man as smart as Marcel Luske in his suit or as slightly sleazy as the Devilfish who has also changed his appearance to bland/boy band.  Glancing round the field of a WSOP tourney you certainly could not pick out the millionaires in the room.

    Sadly the women players seem to be following suit: Vicky Coren is the only woman I’ve seen rock up to a game in a dress.   We are also to be seen in tee-shirts and jeans.  Is it for comfort?  Or is it an extension of not giving away any tells?  It is true that sitting for hours in a chair designed by the Marquis de Sade in a room where the air conditioning fluctuates between arctic and tropical is better suited to soft comfortable clothing.  I know that the 1960s stereotype of us all looking like James Bond characters is long since gone but is it deliberate or laziness?  Most of us are aware of our images from the moment we sit down:  I know when I join a table I consciously do not riffle chips even though it is a bad habit – I prefer to look a bit nervous and fumble them instead. 

    I think that I don’t easily fit a stereo type. I am female and middle-aged and from the action I get its clear that opponents assume I’m a big nit.  I know that this can play to my advantage.  It’s one of the reasons I will not show my cards unless I have to so that I don’t disabuse them of this.   If a flop comes 994 I want my opponent to think I’d never have raised with any hand with a 9 in it.  I also think it’s why I have a reputation for being super-aggressive.  I’m not that big a maniac but I think the surprise of having me 3-bet or bluff stands out far more than if I was a 19yr old scandie.

    So post on here how you thought I would play the first time you laid eyes on me?  If you’ve played against me, what changed/confirmed your first impression?

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    Happy New Year

    Tuesday, December 31, 2013, 12:21 PM [General]

    Ok – admit it: how many of you played poker on Christmas Day??  I had made a pledge not to turn on my laptop at all except to Skype the relatives and check how many hours I was meant to cook the Brussels for.   I was relieved to find that I still felt happy mingling with the real world; cooking, drinking and chatting.  It was watching the crap TV that I found the hardest: my tolerance for most of what passes for TV is increased by the fact that its getting about 15% of my attention as the other 85% is focused on multi-tabling on my laptop.  Having said that, I’m not saying that if three wise men and a couple of donkeys had knocked at the door clutching bags of gold I wouldn’t have been up for a game but I didn’t feel the need to track down a game.

    Now New Year’s Eve is a different story.  My mantra has always been: Christmas for family, New Year for mates.  So tonight I will find myself sat around a poker table at a private poker game.  Not surprisingly there was a minor argument when the host said he planned to stop the game to see the New Year in.  Needless to say a couple of the players objected to this.  To be honest we’ll be lucky if we even notice what the time is!

    Of course New Year usually means New Year’s Resolutions.  Have you made any poker ones?  For the last 4 years mine has been the same: to work on my cash game.  I usually stick to it for about a month and then get bored.  This year I’m going to work on reducing my hero calls as I’m losing a lot of money doing this.  And it’s a waste of time saying I’ll work on my cash game (again) even though its as bad as its ever been.

    Each year I also pick a country or a city I want to go to (usually one I haven’t been to before) and will target satellites for a tournament there.  One year is it was Dublin – I went to the Irish Open.  Another year it was Edinburgh and I made it there by the skin of my teeth in November.  In 2013 it was Prague and it was a close thing again with me going at the start of December.  This year I think it might be the Aviation Club in Paris.  It would be a dream to play there.  Although I don’t think the WSOPE is going back there they often host other games so lets hope 888 pick one of these to support.

    So as the year draws to a close I would like to say thank you for reading my blog and giving me some excellent comments and support.  And in 2014 may all your beats be small and may your poker gods be kind.  Happy New Year!

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    Merry Christmas?

    Wednesday, December 18, 2013, 3:08 PM [General]

    Christmas is a funny time of year for poker players.  I think that if you play poker seriously it can be a challenge at any time of the year to balance poker and life.  For example I know a lot of players who moan about Sunday being the big night of the week when most of us have to get up for work on a Monday morning.  And yet come Sunday evening we still clear the decks and fire up the laptop to chase the dream of winning a Sunday major.   Even struggling into work after 2 hours sleep in exchange for a min-cash doesn’t stop us being back the next week.

    So at Christmas which question do you find yourself asking: “How do I fit poker into all my lovely family and friend commitments?”or “How do I fit my demanding family and friends into my poker commitments?”  For me I leaned towards the latter until one Christmas Eve I was visited by the Three Ghosts of Christmas.

    The Ghost of Christmas Past came to remind me of how happy I was before I discovered online poker.  He looked a lot like Andrew Feldman who appeared to be wearing a hair shirt and a frown.  He showed me lots of scenes of me sitting in smoky pubs laughing with friends I don’t see any more.  Looked ok but I couldn’t work out what we talked about for all those hours when we could have been playing cards??

    The Ghost of Christmas Present looked a lot like Mike Matusow and trailed behind him chains of bad debt and anger.  He took me to the house of a player from the casino that I’d knocked out of a tournament.  There were no presents under the tree and he was hunched over a laptop ignoring his wife and kids.  Good man, I reasoned trying to win back some money to save Christmas.  We flew by my local casino where I could see lots of familiar faces playing poker on Christmas Eve.  Nice they have somewhere to go, I thought.

    The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come looked just like Vanessa Selbst and had bags of gold coins weighing her down.  She took me to Vegas where I’m sitting on the final table of the WSOP Main Event having qualified with 888.  We cut to my friends back in England saying what a useless player I am and such a fish.  He shows me that the $millions I win will cost me my friends and I’ll die rich and friendless.  Didn’t really understand the point this Ghost was trying to make.

    So this year I ask myself the same question I do every year: how will I fit in things around poker.  Those stupid three Ghosts had a wasted trip – I was beyond saving.  I just love playing and nothing is going to get in my way.  Bah humbag. 

    (But for all the Bob Cratchits and Tiny Tims out there, Merry Christmas and Run Good in 2014!)

    2 0

    Prague (3)

    Monday, December 9, 2013, 11:40 AM [General]

    Such a great night on Saturday night. It worked really well that Day 1 finished ay 6.30pm so we got to join in the fun with everyone else. I joined the bus to the Gladiators Cage Fighting event with a degree of trepidation as I don't even like fake violence in films. But I thought it would be an experience and I could always escape to the bar. Sat next to a Hungarian from Transylvania who said he wasn't a full vampire(?!) and we decided to have some side bets. At 50k a fight I made 200k which is worth about £7 lol. The fighting was a bit of boxing and a lot of wrestling on the floor so not as bad as I thought. In fact a couple of the bouts were pretty good. 

    From there we headed off to the club where we had a VIP area overlooking the dance floor. Very strange to be in a smokey atmosphere! I went carefully on the drinks as I knew I had to play poker the next day but it was nice sitting talking to other players and people watching. Managed to share a cab back to the hotel about 2am leaving most everyone else still partying hard.

    Day 2 started with 35 runners and with 12 bbs I was sitting about 26th. The first level was carnage with lots of all-ins. I managed one shove which got through but 1000/2000/200 was serious for a short stack. A very good player min raised in mid pos so I shoved my 55 which I was sure he'd call. He turned over AQo and hit a Q on the turn. I was out in 24th.  Close but no cigar!

    After relaxing and chatting to some of the other players I went for an explore of prague walking to the Charles Bridge and across to the old town. I had supper in a restaurant in front of the Astronomical clock. I like trying local food so opted for A Farmers Plate. This is pork 3-ways, dumplings 3-ways, cabbage 2-ways and a sausage. Er ... yum? Actually it wasnt that bad. It was bitingly cold so I hopped the Metro back to the hotel. Back for the last night in the hotel before flying home. All round great weekend with some great people. Special mention to Irina for brilliant hosting. Can't wait to do another trip with 888.
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    Prague (2)

    Saturday, December 7, 2013, 6:13 PM [General]

    Arrived at the casino with 10 mins to go to find a long queue so glad I joined last night.  Found my table easily. Strange to realise that if I was first out I would still be last woman standing! No wifi in casino so decided to keep some notes and cut and paste them back at the hotel so excuse the rambling accounts of hands. 
    Off to a flying start: 2nd hand kk with the expected A on flop of course. So checked it down after cbet.  Was good but didn't make much money. 
    Level two looked down at the magic 88. Raised it up and got a caller. Flopped the set and rivered a house. Nice early pot. Yay!
    Kk again against table bully. He limped pre which worried me as he'd been a raising machine before this and he smooth-called my raise. Then he went after all my chips raising big on flop and turn.  The big turn bet meant I was pot committed on river but i suspected I was behind. But on river he tanked and eventually checked -I checked behind quickly glad not to have to make a decision. He had kj on the j high flop and I raked in a big pot. 
    Card dead after break so hard to get going. Sank down to 8k (15 bbs) by start of 300/600.  Pivotal hand was Ak flop akq river k agst chip leader. Paid me off on flop and turn but not river. Up to 20k. 
    Structure means I'm struggling with 15-20 bbs continually. Hard to get clever. Was blessed with big cards early but now not getting much I can play given my stack size. 
    500/1000/100. I have 19 bbs. TT. Mid pos (very active) raises (again) so I 3bet to 5k. He 4bets all in so I call. He surprises me with  Ak and doesn't hit. Nice double up. 
    Only 20 mins later Fate got me back. My Ak all in against short(er) stack TT. I didn't hit. His 12k has knocked a hole in my stack - back to 20 bbs sigh. 
    End of day 1 bag up 19500. This is 12 bbs so not great when we come back tomorrow.  Nice to still be in tho even if I need some luck.  Off tonight to the MMA fights followed by clubbing. Grabbed something to eat in a Mexican restaurant as not eaten since breakfast. Will update tomorrow. 
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